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America’s disastrous health care system is responsible for incalculable amounts of illness, death, lost productivity and federal deficit — not to mention anxiety, anger and disgrace. And it’s not going to get fixed, writes Matt Taibbi in the new issue of Rolling Stone, because it’s encased in another failed system: the U.S. government. Rather than attempt to remedy the problem this summer, our government sat down and demonstrated its dizzying ineptitude. “We might look back on this summer someday and think of it as the moment when our government lost us for good,” writes Taibbi. “It was that bad.”
Taibbi breaks down the five steps Congress took to be sure no bill would pass — aiming low, gutting the public option, packing it with loopholes, providing no leadership and blowing the math — in his story, which is available on stands now. In a series of video interviews for RollingStone.com, Taibbi explores one of our system’s most severe flaws, explains how the government wedged itself into an awkwardly damning position, and looks at how the proposed bill would change the ordinary American’s life.
Perhaps the biggest flaw in the American health care system is that 31 percent of costs are associated with administration and paperwork. Here Taibbi examines the easiest way to eliminate the red tape:
Taibbi on how the Democrats wound up on the defensive — and theories that the government struck a sideline deal with the pharmaceutical industry:
Inside the “individual mandate” that would require people to buy insurance and how the bill might make conditions worse than before:
— Rolling Stone
- Portions of Album Content Provided by All Music Guide © 2009 All Media Guide, LLC.
Mr. Taibbi is clueless about the “problems with healthcare”
I saw him on Morning Joe on MSNBC where he claimed our healthcare was the worst in the world.
1st, the actual number of american citizens that cannot afford health care is about 1/3 of 50,000,000 ( approx 17,000,000)
Before we even consider adopting a Canadian or UK style stem we should demand the following: 1) Tort Reform 2) portable insurance 3)No local or state government should be resposible for paying for illegal alien health care – If we do it, it should come from the federal budget – takein from medicaid 4)State insurance boards should be forced to enforce exsisting laws or members face criminal prosecution – The insurance boards really control what any insurance company can do in any state. The boards are made up of insurance company insiders that play golf with insurance executives – this must stop. Perhaps the Attorney General of each state should oversee this.
Mr Tiabbi seems convinced that we must have single payer or all is lost. He obviously does not know anyone that has died under the canadian and UK system like I have from having to wait months for a procedure that would be given immediately in USA.
For ever instance you can come up with of people dieing while waiting for care in the UK and Canada I can find the same here of people dieing because of being denied care.
These kinds of antidotes don’t mean a thing.
Personally I think we need a system more like the Swiss which is private but regulated by government which is what your alluding too in your reform of the state insurance boards.
The other thing the Swiss did was to tell the pharmaceutical companies that they could no longer charge what they wanted too. The government negotiated the prices. They also subsidize people who can’t afford insurance. What they have now is a system that is working and is good at managing costs while covering 95 to 98% of the population.
Of course the Swiss are better at managing than we are.
That’s all true, but where did you get the 95-98% figure? I am Swiss and basic health care is mandatory here, meaning everybody has to have basic health care which would amount to 100% of the population that has health care. And while it is expensive, it is much cheaper than it is in the US. You can also choose what insurance company you want to have basic health care from and the prices differ significantly. Plus you need to choose your self-coverage rate. The lower the self-coverage rate, the more you pay monthly for health care. I have a self-coverage rate of 1200 Swiss Francs which is the second highest (1500 being the highest) and the lowest is, I think 200 or 300, but if you choose that your rates are much higher. I also have additional insurance for things like vaccinations, travelling, glasses and ambulance transportation.
All in all, I think we have a really good system even though everybody complains about the rates going up each year.
I am always amazed how bad the health care system is in the US and pretty much none of my American friends even have basic health care. Something needs to change, whatever it is.
Your references to the Swiss system of health care are interesting. My initial concern would be that the Swiss people are very different from Americans in numerous ways. Just as an example, there is a cohesion in the sense of being Swiss that Americans do not relate to in their sense of who is American.
Very good point made here.
I, an American in Switzerland, believe that the issue with healthcare in the US is not the system, it’s the people and their attitudes toward their society. The upbringing of an ‘every man for himself’ attitude. Free market capitalism is the psychology amongst the most powerful Americans. Anything social is bad, Americans are hard pressed to share history, land, and rights with their neighbors let alone access to a better life, which includes beign healthy. The root cause of the financial crisis and the sub-prime catastrophe is indicative of that. It would be a miracle if the reform passes, but I have a feeling that if this H1N1 is as serious as they say it is, many Americans may (I emphasize may) change their tune. Simply put Americans are stingy minus a catastrophe.
Different Americans feel differently about being American because we make each other feel “unamerican”. If you don’t look or act the way someone else feels is American they exclude you. This is a big reason why people are up in arms about healthcare. People don’t want to pay for someone else healthcare. Also the spectre of socialism looms. Even though we practice it when our kids go to public school, the fire department puts out fires whether you paid taxes or not and we bail out various private companies. People worry more about their guns than their health or their child’s education. Americans need to get it together and stop focusing BS. Obama doesn’t want your freedom. Besides we are waiting for Republicans to return it
The American way has always been “Work hard for what you have”. That is why this country has always been so strong. People were not afraid to go out and make their own way. This is not true any more. The idea that everyone has a right to almost everything (job, house, car, health insurance…etc) without putting in their time has taken over. This is why you see conservatives in such and uproar over every little comment that might mention a loss of freedom or privacy. The idea of single payer healthcare is just another example of those that are not putting out in order to recieve.
It is true that the healthcare system in the U.S. needs to change. But there is one problems which the democratic party will not mention that is raising healthcare cost. Right now millions of illegal immagrants fludding our emergency rooms without paying. Instead of trying to control the boarders, if you look in the bill that is trying to get past it says that all illegal immagrants will get free healthcare and their translators will be paid by the American tax payer. All this does is give more insentive for illegals to keep coming over.
So tell me what is it that these people have done to deserve this free gift that no American can recieve????????
Yes it would be good if the Government would show some cohones and stand up to the Pharmaceuticos,( how much is spent on their lobbies each year?) but health care needs to be much more than palliating our symptoms with drugs. These discussions are nowhere to be found.Drug companies have little interest in curing anyone, and probably less interest in promoting lifestyle choices that will help people be well and help prevent problems before they become full-blown crises.
To some extent, the whole debate has been little more than than figuring out a way to re-arrange the furniture–not that the furniture was in the right place all along–it has not been.But who is ever going to renovate the house?
About six weeks ago I read an article published by the CDC that stated that the ramifications obesity are costing the health care mechanism something like 142 Billion annually!!
It is a well-known fact that obesity complications are showing up in children earlier and earlier.What are the consequences of THAT? And how will the system ever be able to sustain itself in the face of such a development? If I were a drug company, I’d be pleased.
Diego while you may quote a statistic you fail to make mention from what source so I find it suspect. I also think that you might count those in Canada that die because they did not get a procedure done in time since you know them personally but you do not quote the total of such death. The statistics are there for everyone to see. Canadians live longer and pay far less than American for care. Now the rich can pay anywhere in the world and do not have to wait but right here in our own backyard we have to be treated as a third world country and have the services that normally would go to those third world countries be done here. And by the by these people in America waited in line eight hours to be seen for such simple things as eye glasses and dental care even thought many had insurance the deductibles meant the difference between paying their rent or paying for the health care. And by the way we have the deaths here in America 18,000 who died a year and that is the governments figure. I welcome different points of view but when they come with valid arguments based on sound facts. You my friend do not have it right.
@ Diego: Where do you get this idea that we ‘wait months’ over here i the UK? If something is urgent, we DON’T ‘wait months’. Geddit? We JUST DON’T.
I think your source is more likely to be the slightly er, shall we say, ‘tendentious’ Fox News than anything to do with reality.
Not the worst, the 37th best…BUT….the MOST EXPENSIVE by far. Yeah!! we win!!
My friend i’m a firm believer in free healthcare especially if u do the math of how much, is/was spent on war in the last 40 years!
But i’m against free health care in the US simply because of all the basket cases resulting of an unforgiving inhumaine american social system and war!
People are fat and out of shape with all the television and garbbage they eat! So finally you can’t afford what should be a familly priority, good health and a loving familly!
Diego – The greatest accomplishment of the right wing was to perfect the art of duping weak-minded common folks into championing the causes of the rich and powerful, even at the peril of the people’s best interests. You are their wet dream.
My point exactly. How did the Right totally corrupt and dupe these people? If I knew I could make a fortune selling snake oil or better yet Kool Aid.
RIGHT WING ON THE SIDE OF RICH?
Hmm, and what about the left wing? The last time I looked Nancy Pelosi is worth over half a billion, and the wealthiest members of congres by the way are D’s…
They are biggest hypoctites,,, they are supposedly feeling your pain, on the side of the poor ( and you are gallable enough to believe it) and for some unknown reason forget to pay their own taxes…do explain!!!
Mattazuma- If I work hard all my life to make my life better while you do not, why should I worry about making your life better on the shoulders of my hard earned dollar??????
I am tired of hearing the right wing, and no doubt they are the Christian right wing who must have never read the story of the Good Samaritan, or in fact any of the social teaching of their leader, worry about giving health care to the undocumented in our country. In all the industrialized nations of the world, they take care of those who are ill regardless. Hospitals have to, as they should, take in those who need care, and they do so through the emergency room. So you think it better to have undocumented human beings use the emergency room at great cost to everyone rather than get standard care that is cheaper. The question to ask yourself is the same one asked years ago in another era–Who is your neighbor? For me, I don’t care who the person is. If they are in need of treatment, they should get it. It is about making a more just world, not about you losing your white man sense of having what you never had to begin with.
And Diego, you know nothing about the systems in Canada or Britain, or you wouldn’t make such ridiculous blanket generalizations. Stats show that 22,000 people die here in the US due to not having access to health care, and you want to pluck the odd cases in Canada and England. The truth is none of them want what we have here, none of them.
Diego: “He obviously does not know anyone that has died under the canadian and UK system like I have from having to wait months for a procedure that would be given immediately in USA.”
So… ummmm… If you have died in two different countries, then how are you writing this letter?
Check your verb tense agreement.
Excellent points. I read the piece w/ glee! As a conservative, I am utterly bored reading other conserv. opinions. They say, in order to defeat the enemy, one must know his enemy–hence, I am reading the other sides’ opinions. They are often totally uninformed, biased and generally pissed off–oblivious to reason.
The left is shooting itself in the foot. Obama shows no leadership. Pelosi is an embarrasment. Special interests run rampant. Like the housing collapse, this health care fiasco is due more to too much regulation, not a lack of regulation. Get rid of the gov’t and lawyers, and surely the paper work and excessive waste will go down.
If people used insurance for what it was originally designed for–CATASTROPHIC care, and only for that, and paid for the other minor stuff out of pocket, surely the costs would go way down. We use the ins. card for whatever, and damn the cost. Imagine national food ins…imagine the lines at the grocery stores. And, funny, no one mentions tort reform.
The Euros prolly have us now, but realistically, you can’t deny the rationing. It’s inevitable when everyone gets something for nothing. The fact is we have the best health care, but the worst health insurance. Let’s use our heads, and not throw the baby out w/ the bathwater. The author was right in his beliefs that gov’t probably won’t solve the problem, because, well, they are the gov’t.
Thanks Matt. This is really well done. I don’t understand why the right wing thinks that massive corporations, whose profits depend on denying paying customers care is “the best health care in the world”. It’s the most immoral system in the world, because we CAN afford to cover everyone, and we CHOOSE not to.
If they don’t want the fed involved in their health care, let’s take away their medicare. If the government is such a foulup, let’s take away all public services, the national guard, police, state governments. The arrogance of “them that’s got” is astonishing.
why do liberals always have to play the have vs have not card?
many people ARE offered health care coverage at their job but choose NOT to get it to save $ for the iphone, new car, etc
this will never be solved until the liberal voters decide to walk off the plantation and quit listening to their “master” leaders. Do you see any of these so call leaders being poor? No, they are all millionaires from questionable means. And, I admit the right side doesn’t have anything better to offer.
AND, southla,
Millionaires or not, they are all in the thrall of the big corporations – in this case, Major Pharmaceuticals Corps and Life Insurance Companies! They are paying, stirring and confusing these broke souls who need the health care the worst – to keep them dazed and confused and to get them to resist our social covenant, denigrate the ‘pinko, commie, socialists’ and encourage them to act against their own best interests – ONCE AGAIN!
Stay the hell away from my wifes job! They have already let unfair trade laws take my job away from me (machine tool electrican), now they want to end my wifes employement (health insurance agent). Get a fucking job and get your own insurance, stop looking to the taxpayer for another handout.
If you’re such a ‘tough free market type’ stop boo-hoo-ing about what cost you your job and go out and get another!
Fixing health care would mean that guys like you wouldn’t have to lose their health care if they lost their jobs OR that the little woman wouldn’t lose hers when her world changes! AND in case you don’t ‘get it’ being a hard ass, anti commie-pinko-hippy-socialist type includes facing the fact that just like markets, jobs change – tough guys change too – read adapt!
Now that you have a little time on your hands pick up a damn book or paper and study up a bit. Maybe you’ll learn that health care is intended to help, mostly will and that the insurance company your wife works for is a blood sucking, casino, with all the cards atacked against the insured and out to take our money! If you prefer that the USA be dominated lock, stock and barrel by it’s mjor corporations and we all become fodder for them so you can have the privilege of an insurance plan that many can’t – well, tuff sh*t!!
Meanwhile, the little woman is probably a very nice person who just took the best job she could get but I no more ‘owe it to you’ to bend over and get screwed by Blue Cross or Aetna, for the sake of her job than you ‘owe it to me’ to support health care with your tax dollars!
Comprende?
Since when was health care a right? If you don’t insurance, get sick and die to friggen bad. The insurance companies are the reason I am able to feed my children. To be blunt I couldn’t care less about anyone elses children, ti’s my family that has Priority 1 with me. My sense of compassion for my fellow American when out the window when your government agreed to all these unfair trade laws, and decided to let immigrants in our country and take our jobs. They are lowering the standard of living of the average American worker, by lowering our wages. It’s funny how all of you want to go after the insurance companies, but nobody will say squat to the companies who send our jobs overseas. You want free insurance, but continue to buy foreign cars. Before you say those foreign companies build there cars here check the trade laws. Try buying an American car in Japan, see how huge of a tax hit they add to the price of an American car. See if Japan allows American companies to build cars in their land. We are being sold down the river but what the hell as long as you don’t have to earn your own health care it’s all good right?
To the guy who said I was unskilled I’d like to see you attempt to work with live voltage. Let me see you wire an assembly line with a live 480 volts. I worked with electrical engineers 4 year degree guys who designed the stuff I wired and they were too scared to do what I do.
steve my man.
learn to spell first off. secondly, your nation does not give a crap about blue collar dopes like you. even if you wire stuff at 480 whatever. it sounds pretty simple by the way — what you do for a living. i can find a couple of million people who would do the same. humbly and quietly.
you are right about your kids being your priority. mine are. so screw your kids.
finally i am one of the foreigners who came here and took a job from you and yours. probably because i am better than you and yours.
basically people like you have lost the will to excel. which is waht made this nation great in the first place. and we who come here are allowed to be critical. but we do understand that all in all the usa is the most level field you will find on the planet.
Evil and vile blurider. If you have an opinion, well that is just wonderful. You are most definitely entitled to think what you want. But you seem to have a problem with any one who does not think like you. Open your mind a little. Each and every person on this planet has the right to feel any way they want. You do not get to decide who is right… or um left. Steve is afraid for his family right now, so I am sure he is a little out of sorts. Is it really necessary to start a fight with him. There seem to be a lot of others who think blurider is a jerk whose opinion stinks outloud. just sayin
Well Steve, the simplest way I can reply to this is that America, like many other countries is going through some serious changes. There will always be people, like you, who are not happy with it, but that’s really beside the point.
The problem with your very blunt “get a fucking job” comment, is this. Someone with cancer who has little money to begin with is not going to magically get more money. Their level of productivity, whatever that may be, is hence, snuffed out. The children of the poor, who still have an undetermined productivity level, are also thrown away.
Do you see what I’m getting at here? Not having public health is simply not economically viable, since all we really end up doing is flushing human capital down the toilet because they’re too poor. And although they may not be doctors, or lawyers, or saviours of the world, we still need people to mop the floors we walk on, and work the gas stations where we go every day.
Furthermore, since no help is given to raise the productivity level of these unskilled and semi-skilled workers, such as yourself, well then, foreigners, including illegal immigrants will in fact take those jobs.
Wow Steve, you’re the perfect example of why America sucks right now. You lost your job as a machine tool electrician because free markets outsourced your job to someone who would do it cheaper in Mexico or China or wherever, and yet you think you’re ENTITLED to that job. I wish you still had the job, but when you have a “free market system” served by both sides of the political aisle out to benefit shareholders, workers like you will get screwed to maximize profit.
Now your wife sells insurance for a health care company whose job it is to maximize profits for shareholders and make sure it has to pay as little as possible for people’s treatment when they get sick or else it will lose money and not put food on your table for your children. So in other words, the rest of us should to be forced to get screwed on premiums from an oligopolistic system because your wife is ENTITLED to her job! Your problem is one of entitlement. Americans don’t want handouts on health care- they want a rational system that doesn’t screw them. If that puts your wife out of a job, well it will be bad for your family but much better for the rest of us. Sorry, but the good of millions of people is more important to me than your wife’s ability to sell exploitative premiums to people who need health care. You and your wife will have to do what the rest of us do to put food on the table- find a job that isn’t useless or in danger of becoming outsourced.
Since there seems to be a great fear among the masses that people who are in this country without legal status might get some sort of largess from ‘the system’, why not make it a more serious crime to hire a person without working papers.
For instance: Any employer who is found to have two or more persons with no legal working status in his employ, would be fined the equivalent dollar value for insuring five legal workers for one year, or $50,000, whichever is greater PER undocumented worker in his or her employ. All such fines would go directly to the MEDICARE FOR ALL fund.
Let’s up the cash available to Medicare and Social Security by upping the cap on Social Security to include the same percentage rate for all income (including capital gains).
While we’re at this fixing of the system, let’s get NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO, and all other alphabet soup trade deals to enforce all LABOR contracts that might be negotiated by workers all over the world so they wouldn’t have to cross borders and leave their families behind if the want to eat. How would you like it if you were forced off your land and you had to get a smuggler to take you across the desert, end up in a country where you can’t understand a word, all… so you could earn enough money so your family wouldn’t starve??? Unlikely you say, look around, maybe you will get to run a mile in someone else’s shoes in the near future.
Heavy hand or light hand, the elites of this world always want the cheap way out for any labor costs. In Honduras, right now, you have companies including, Chiquita Banana (formerly the infamous United Fruit) and Dole, working in conjunction with high powered, well-placed Clinton and Obama Administration officials to take away the minimum wage increase that President Zeleya had granted to the workers. A wage increase would interfere with corporate profits. We couldn’t have anything that might interrupt the profit flow, could we?
You know,I don’t which is scarier-NeoCons who have a hard on for Ayn Rand and their invisible friend’Free Market’telling them”Keep Doing Things They Way They Are!!”
-or-
Bleeding Heart Liberals who holler”Nationalized Health Care”!!!
And I’m equally tired of the Unholy Trio of Anoxeric Skanktard Ann Coulter;Buck Toothed Fillipino Anchor Baby
Michelle Malkin and Alaskan Fur Trader/MILF Sarah Palin spreading rumors that”They’ll create a’Death Panel’that’ll
send your elderly and handicapped loved ones to be turned into Soylent Green!!”.
Jesus Buddha and Mo-F’ng-hammed!!People,LEARN TO THINK FOR YOURSELVES!!!!
Neither Bill O’Reilly;Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck-or-Barbara Streisand;Michael Moore and Alec Baldwin give a flying If You See Kay(Tell her I said’Hi’!!)about your crummy lives!!!
The ENEMY WITHIN!
YOU ARE a PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THE DRIFT OF AMERICA..!
You need to chill, pal.
all the whining about we can’t afford it. all the money we spent on the stimulus and bailouts are NOTHING compared to money wasted in defense spending in the last 10 years. and all for what? unless mexico or canada is going to invade us tanks and jet fighters do us virtually no good. the days of you line up on that side of the battlefeild and we’ll line up on this side are over.
Why shuckins you geniuses, take about stupid,the ‘war on drugs’.legalize all street drugs and tax them for enough money to start paying off the national debt and providing for universial health care. Most of the addicts are hooked on and able to get their drugs of choice legally anyway. And if you really need it here’s a rehab clinic paid for with the tax on crack, weed, heroin,whatever. Of course we can wish in one hand and crap in the other. You can bet which hand will fill up first as long as our government is run by ‘Ego Maniacs’ serving themselves and greedy corporations that could not care less about we rank and file. Our system is based on the concept of a carefully orchestrated ‘Ponji’ scheme anyway,unfortunately a certain sector could not afford to keep pouring money in and the paper came tumbling down. What me worry. Max
I’m not so sure Obama was sincere during the campaign about being for progressive causes including single payer, since he’s done 180s on many campaign promises – need I list them?
Beginning with his appt. of Rahm E. the neoliberal free market believer and AIPAC supporter, onto his Wall St. appointments to Treasury through supporting Cheney’s secrecy and coverup of torture, to confabing with Pharma, I think he is staunchly in the corporatist neoliberal column – another Bill Clinton. There’s not even fire in his belly for a public option.
The only answer for all this corporatist corruption is public financing of campaigns and strong lobbying reform. Also, it would be nice to have a vibrant progressive third party that rejects corporatism and currying favor (and needless to say bags of cash) with/from the corporacratic plutocracy that both parties are essentially wings of.
raceto i.
I totally agree with you about campaign finance reform, lobbying reform AND I’d add – term limits, tho if we could make it less of a ‘PLUM’ opportunity to be elected and cut way back on the corruption, term limits might take care of themselves.
I also suspect that with the right campaign finance reform, third party candidacy might automatically be facilitated too. If not, we could readily add it to the package! It would be a good ‘fit’ with those changes!
Unfortunately I totally agree with you! Obama is not a stupid fool like Bush. He appears to be naive and more concerned with his “nicey nice”, I want everyone to like me.
He is truly pissing off his progressive base to bring in a few repukes? Its disheartening. I believe Rahm and Axelrod are advisors he should immediately dump. Rahm is nothing but Chicago Mayor Daley thug. We will get no relief in the middle east, more war in Afganistan, and continue spending trillions on wars and future wars. Sometimes I wonder if the military industrial complex, shadow government set up by Bush and Cheney is alive and well.
Right on.
See the following article which explains it: “Has Obama lost the trust of progressives, as Krugman says?”, found at this URL:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/
Matt Taibbi, if you ask your parents or grandparents..How good is the public Health Care system in Lebanon? Would you get operated there if you needed? Why do King Abdullah comes to the Mayo Clinic for care? He doesn’t trust the Public Health Care in Saudi Arabia? You have your head burried in the sand and cannot see anything else. You cannot impose a marxist mentality in this country. The left will have to kill all the conservatives and their kids to impose marxists health care! It doens not work! Even Chavez has private insurance in Venezuela!
The problem with health care in America is the COST of it — not the quality of it!
Slightly radical are we here? How ironic it is that in a debate about the nation’s health you would bring up the potential slaughter of several millions. Kind of jives with the direction we’re supposed to be taking, doesn’t it?
In truth, the real problem, as I’m sure people have already pointed out, is that the problem is not with the quality of the care in America, it is with the cost. And I hate to sound redundant, but whether anyone likes it or not, it must be fixed. This is simple economics 101; the sort of thing a class of intro students could agree on in a split second, mainly because it just makes sense.
However, the state of health care right now in America is the equivalent of that potential slaughter you evoked… a completely useless waste of human capital and resources.
It is both. Lack of quality of care and the expense. We spend double that of any of the 30 civilized nations, and we are 37th in the world…behind Cuba and Costa Rica.
The US is not the nation that creates the new technology either. All that high tech stuff…coming from single payer nations. In those countries they are concerned about health care and preventative medicine is huge. Not so in the US!
We’re missing the point.
I lived for years in a town of 5000 in Greece, a country not exactly known for efficiency. They had a doctor and nurse available 24/7 for all. It’s not perfect but it works.
Anywhere in the world, if you’re wealthy, you go purchase better care. Period. We need clinics with a basic level of care provided for all. We Americans need to stop viewing poor people as losers.
RDow, with all do respect, I am a Greek citizen from Cephalonia. My nephew, a recent medical graduate, has to wait 3 years to get admitted to Oncology because of the waiting line, so the Greek government is sending him to study pathology even though he doesn’t want that, and they will pay him 1,000 euros per month. A flat of 60 sq.meters in Athens rents for 700 euros a month. For the next 10 years his medical career is plannedby the goverment. Plus, there are so many older Greeks who sell their homes to Doctors to get out of the waiting list so that they can be operated and treated promptly. Since you live there too, you must know about the “Fakelakia” system. You put the money in the envelope in the public servant desk while he or she is in Frappee break and you can get what you want from the bureocratic system. Is that the system that you want Americans to have? I don’t think so! I just got a call from my Doctor telling me that I am cancer free for now because of the operation that I went thru. Two weeks ago my CA 125 test came with elevated number and in less than 2 weeks, I can breath better and look at my kids and say that I will be around for a another good 10 or 20 years. Imagine if I were to be waiting for a public servant to give me permission to have this operation with a Doctor that I don’t even know!. No government can interfere with the well being of a human being, from conception to death, specially in the United States, a place where nobody looks at poor people like loosers. You have never lived here and don’t know how much we care about poors. How many volunteering jobs do you have?
However, you must have paid for your cancer treatment (which is obviously the smart thing to do). That being said though, many people in the US can and do bankrupt themselves trying to get care. Others are too poor to afford it period.
I admit, it is too bad that your nephew can’t get into oncology, but what’s worse is if people die because they can’t afford medicinal treatment.
So it’s sort of a double edged sword, ain’t it?
I see the word “freedom” popping up a lot. In Article 7 of the Bill of Rights, it clearly states that no person “shall be deprived of the right to life, liberty or property”.
I’m just throwing this out there, but wouldn’t that imply then that not providing health care for the citizens is in fact denying a person the right to life?
Its an interesting question, although it definitely walks the tight rope of Constitutional Law.
Yep the fix is in because our representatives are corporate owned. Kabuki theater for the masses.
Yes they think it is that easy to manipulate the American people. First they divide us all into cheer leaders for their political brands Republican or Democrat. Same people Brand X and Brand Y, jockeying for their turn at the corporate troughs. Remember we almost elected John Edwards twice. A trial Lawyer who ran on class warfare what a class act he turned out to be. No Tort reform…hmm imagine that a White House full of Harvard Law Graduates but no tort reform.
Whatever the debate… single payer, public, private, free market etc. until someone addresses all the crazy lawsuits it isn’t going to change. Defensive medicine is expensive! Doctors order tests and call in specialists when it really isn’t needed to cover their asses. I don’t blame them. They can get yanked into some stupid lawsuit, spend months and millions defending themselves, and no one compensates them when it comes back that they did nothing wrong. To avoid even the hint of malpractice they over practice.
It is sickening because inbetween all of the pundits spreading their propaganda/kabuki theater I have to watch ambulance chaser commercial after commercial. Just like pharma and insurance companies… personal injury attorneys line the pockets of our politicians so that in 1300 pages of legislation there is not 1 page addressing tort reform. What a joke.
Also, everyone wants to discuss how they do it in Canada, Germany, Japan etc. well they don’t have the stupid lawsuits. Germany and Japan don’t spend trillions on defense because we have bases protecting them.
J.C.,
I’m no expert on these matters but I suspect that with the stats on medical errors and deaths caused by infections and other errors in hospitals and not within the physicians’ purview, all this anti-lawyer, tort reform stuff might just be another of those industry backed, distractions many others are posting about here.
How serious can the need for tort reform be with this reality in the world of medicine?: ‘The new Commonwealth Fund study suggests that the 1999 Institute of Medicine report, which estimated that there are 44,000 to 98,000 deaths annually due to medical errors, may be the tip of the iceberg in determining the full extent of injuries from medical errors.’
‘Based on the IOM’s lower estimate of 44,000 deaths annually, medical errors rank as the eighth leading cause of death in the United States – higher than motor vehicle accidents (43,458), breast cancer (42,297), or AIDS (16,516). Agency for health care Research and Quality, 2002′
AND finally, ‘According to the CDC, in American hospitals alone, hospital-acquired infections account for an estimated 1.7 million infections and 99,000 associated deaths each year.’
Clearly the intent of all that litigiousness is to keep docs and hospital staffs on their toes. Could it be making health care better rather than worse? Could it be that medical errors are a larger problem than legal opportunism?
Tort reform is unncessary. It accounts for l.5 %. Waste, fraud and abuse is another matter. Because there is no federal standard for health care, these for profits can charge whatever they want. How many seniors do you think ask for an itemized bill? They don’t! There is a coding system Doctors use to do their billing. If the patient doesnt ask for a copy of the bill doctors/hospitals etc, can code a bill stating they did more procedures than they actually did. Doctors have two people in the room. A malpractice lawyer, and a for profit beancounter. There are lots of tests doctors perform to assure their diagnosis is correct. They pay millions a year in malpractice insurance. Doctors state they spend 40% of their time filling out paperwork. We need an online medical records file so the patient is asked again and again to fill out the same paperwork. We need the living will portion so you can tell state what “you” want in your end of life. Everyone needs that no matter how old you are. Do you want to end up like Terry Schiavo?
I would like to say that you are so wrong! In Texas they have a cap of 250K and 750K to avoid these madness about lawsuits. Tort reform is neccesary and a must! Doctors cannot affort to pay premium insurances because of the fear of a law suit. What happen to responsability! Lawyers are one of the stronger Democratic supporters and now they are not having a lot of business. Having Tort is needed. Else, you must be a rich lawyer!
I live in Texas. In every other state where tort reform was passed, after many promises from the insurance industry of “reduced costs” and “lower premiums”, it was noted that insurance premiums actually went up, not down.
After tort reform passed in Texas–a decidedly conservative, pro-business state–the medical and insurance industries proclaimed in tandem that, counter to what other states had experienced, premiums had gone down 17%. Funny thing was, I noted that the billings from my doctors, and the cost of my medical insurance premiums in Texas had gone up.
When I asked my doctor how he would explain it he said, “that’s a good question. I’ll have to look into it.” I said, “you do that.”
I’m still waiting for an answer.
I’m not talking about malpractice insurance… I’m talking about the cost of defensive medicine by physicians. I realize that medical errors and infections are a huge problem and the institutions are to blame.
I am close to an Internal Medicine physician who works in a hospital. He trained in Cardiology, GI, Endocrinology, Pulmonology etc but did not specialize in them. He has sufficient knowledge to handle many cases on his own but calls in consultants in those specialties (at hundreds of $ per consultation) even though he often doesn’t really need them.
If someone comes in with chest pain after a cocaine bender he doesn’t just do a drug screen. He orders the works: ekg, echo, heart scan etc… because if the guy goes and drops dead of a heart attack he has to cover his ass. I’m talking about how doctors do their job. The minute you walk in to a hospital they are making sure they are building their case so you can’t sue them.
Let’s look at it this way. Suppose you wanted to be a baker. It was your life’s dream. You took out thousands and thousands of dollars to go to school. While everyone else was getting drunk at football games you were studying your ass off to learn your trade. You study for years and then decide you want to open a bakery because you truly love to bake. You spend thousands on the building, the staff and equipment. You bake a cake and figure you need to charge $25 for a cake. Then the government mandates that you can only charge $10… oh and by the way if anyone walking down the street wants cake you have to give them the cake…for free! If they don’t like the cake or think you put too much sugar in the cake then well… they sue you and you lose the bakery. How many people would want to be bakers?
He would love to open a clinic and give free health care during his time off because he truly loves to help people. However, he can’t because the very people he would love to help are looking to win “the lottery”
I don’t like the idea of caps because if someone cuts off the wrong leg or gives someone the wrong medicine they should be compensated. Why don’t we have a “death panel” for lawsuits. Kill the crap and proceed with the real ones. Also, more money should go to the victims and less to the ambulance chasers.
But that is the problem. You take a risk everyday, who knows? a rock may fall and hit you, are you going to sue God?. People make mistakes and with a cap you will get a compensation, a reasonable one. But to sue for 5 million dollars for loosing a pinky? The frivolity of these law suits is what drives the doctors to run non needed tests. I agree with you that some Doctors have became greedy. That has to be address too! But that is pie in the sky without Tort Reform.
The biggest lie in the healthcare debate is that malpractice lawsuits are driving up malpractice insurance premium. Malpractice premimums have nothing to do with lawsuits and everything to do with the way the insurance companies invest the insurance premiums. Here’s J. Robert Hunter, federal insurance administrator for Gerald Ford says:
Hunter said his numbers point to an insurance industry cycle that is market-dependent. When interest rates are high and the economy is booming, insurance investments — primarily in bonds — have no problem covering up any malpractice expenses, Hunter said, and companies can afford to lower their rates.
But when the economy stagnates, as it did at the start of this decade, investments become less profitable and companies must hike up their rates, Hunter said.
“When the stock market is strong, when their investments are doing well, when interest rates are high, insurance companies tend to do very well,” he said. “If they get to a point where they’re losing money, then they’re quick to raise their rates and blame the lawyers for it.”
Under the single payer system, doctors dont need malpractice insurance. Everyone in, nobody out. Malpractice is absolutely unnecessary. I urge you to go to: Physicans for National Health Care. PNHP.org. See what real doctors and real nurses want~~~then support them!
Anton is a fucking idiot.
You all should get a life – most of you if not all have mines of mush and can not even tie your own shoes in the am, that is if you even have shoes. Dont beleive everything you see on the evening news, FOX, etc.
In short, wake up and do some real thinking.
Thanks Matt for your great reporting. The for profits are stealing our premiums that don’t go for health care but CEO’s (making millions a year) Shareholders, and buying our newsrooms, through ads for viagra, cialis and other drugs. 47M americans having no insurance is one problem the bigger problem is those of us who do have it and paying through the nose for premiums. My daughter, husband and 2 children are paying $1500 a month….thats a friggin mortgage payment. My best friend who worked for an employment agency for 10 years, couldnt afford the co pays to go to the doctor. She is now diagnosed with cancer in both breasts! She had to quit her job and go on medicaid to get help. We have people losing their jobs everyday and going into the ranks of the unemployed. We do not want a Canadian or English system. England really is a socialized system, i.e. the government pays the salaries of doctors/nurses, etc. We need a single payer system as we have already in the VA, Medicare and Medicaid. Its not government run programs, its government administered programs. We need Medicare for all. Our State of Delaware is going bankrupt. Dependent on the banksters and credit card companies going down the tubes our state lost millions in revenue. Premiums have increased 110% over the last 10 years. WE cant afford health care coverage, States need to make it easier to sign up for Medicaid. 25M who have insurance cant pay the copays and huge deductibles. There have been 4 co ops stated in 1995 and by 2000 all went bankrupt. We can not even think of going to a coop or a pool concept. That is nothing but another for profit giveaway as it cost $12M just to start one up. Who has that kind of money but the for profits.
Stand with the progressives pushing for the single payer option as the public option. Most families are now paying $1100 a month…how in the hell can we afford it when our wages are decreasing not increasing. This is the wealthiest nation in the world. We just spent $1 trillion plus an an unnecessary war. We will spend billions more in Afganistan. If you loose your job, you loose your health care. If you think you can afford COBRA think again, it can cost thousands a month. Want to know why the majority of doctors/nurses want to end the for profit system. They are sick and tired of having MBA beancounters who are not doctors over ruling their choice of treatment. They in essence are the “death panels”.
Support HR 676 sponsored by John Conyers with 100 House members already signed on. Obama needs to man up and give us the health care reform we need. Blue Dogs must be exposed for the millions they took in campaign contributions. Bacus, Conrad, Carper, Landrieu,Kerry etc. Did you know that JOhn Kerry got $8M over the years from these insurance companies? Its a fact. If you think either corporate owned party is going to give the american people some relief think again. Its up the american people to pressure these bought and paid for senators/Congressman who are selling us out. Obama and Rahm need to come clean on the little dirty deal they made with Big Pharma not to reduce the cost of drugs. There can no reduction in health care costs unless drugs are purchased in volume thereby saving everyone big bucks. I just had a pacemaker installed 2 wks ago. It cost $150,000. In 2000 the same pacemaker was installed, it cost $50.000 that is how much the costs have increased due to the corporate whores stealing our health care dollars. Get a copy of the book, “license to steal”. It was Richard Nixon who gave us this sicko system and its time to throw it under the bus and go for real reform. Stop watching anything on FAUX News…they are nothing but the propaganda corporate supporters who want no real reform. They want democrats to lose so they can gain seats in 2010, just like they did in 1993 during Hilarys attempt at reform.
Obama man the hell up and stop this bipartinsan bullcrap. They are never going to go along. If FDR hadnt gone it alone we wouldnt have social security. If Lyndon JOhnson hadnt stood up to the corporte republican whores, we wouldnt have medicare. Obama and the democrats must take full responsiblity and do what they were elected to do.
A single payer plan covers not only medical, but dental, vision, long term, nursing home care….all of it. Think about that! Go to the fastest growing doctors group: pnhp.org. These doctors are doing a national tour the entire month of August, telling the truth and forcing the democrats to deliver on real reform. No PUblic Option, no Public Support. Labor has told the democrats if you dont deliver on health care, we will sit 2010 OUT. Without labor the dems will fail on all levels.
You cannot have it all. What are you going to do when all the illegal Mexicans jump into the system that Obama wants?. Who is going to pay for that?.Do you want more taxes or Tort Reform? Plus let insurances be sold accross the state line and get competition. I hardly use the USPS and yet I pay to sustain them. Meantime, UPS and FedEx are making a lot of money for the shareholders. That is how I see HR3200.
Sorry: Doctors are touring the country the entire month of Sept. starting in Portland. The National Council of Churches, Catholics, Presbyterians, Labor and community groups of all kinds totally supported single payer. There is a reason why our doctors and nurses were arrested for speaking out about single payer.
The republicans had 8 years to do something about health care, they did nothing. They never will. Bush allowed Big Pharma to charge whatever they wanted, stopped any drug importation from Canada which would have saved billions. Throw these republican corporates a life line and lets all pray they lose their jobs, end up on the soup lines and in line for medicaid…a single payer system.
Well your popular president has been in office for less than a year and he cannot even get the Democrats to agree to pass HR3200! There is no free lunch!(Econ 101)
Plus, it is soooo old and lame to blame everything on W. So when you get the Swine flu, are you also going to blame it on W.?
Every time the Replublicans and their lackies play the “deficit” card, then you better bet we need to go back to GW Bush. Where were these town hall screamers when Bush pushed through $1.3 trillion in tax cuts (mainly for the wealthy), with no offsetting revenue stream?
Where were they as Bush rammed Supplementary War spending through Congress year after year (meaning if never appeared in the yearly deficit amounts)? Where were they when the truth began emerging of the extent of cronyism and fraud in all those no-bid Iraq Reconstruction contracts (so well documented in Chris Mooney’s 2007 book, Blood Money). How many Screamers disrupted town hall meetings held by Republicans over any of the above.
bottom line: Reagan and Papa Bush ran up over $4 trillion in debts. Only 14% of it can be attributed to investments/spending on the infrastructure needs of the country. And now that Obama is heavily investing in the country, Republicans suddenly say, “We can’t afford it”, and point to the deficit. Baloney. That’s why GW Bush matters, my friend.
And the Republican party, for all the faults of the Dems, still remains the party that has never been interested in the priorities of the average American. And it’s a toast to their ability to deceive these people into thinking they are that stands as the greatest testimony to the ignorance and gullibility of many Americans.
Don please read the unemployment level of the poor Joe around America: Michigan 20%, Florida 13%(That’s just in Deltona) and the administration is telling you it is 9.6% Do you know how many are hopeless that they can get anything out there? What happened with the stimulus money? where is all that money? My electrical bill is going to go up by 30% because of cap and trade! You must be a rich liberal professor who has no idea how the real world works. This president budget and spending for the last 200 days doesn’t not compared to W.! We are in the Trillions! Even the Chinese are telling Obama to stop spending. They are not even paying back to the dealers for the cash for cluncker program. Where is the money? Why can he give 2 billion dollars to Brazil to get oil from their shores and we cannot do that! Heck, I have 3 neighbors of mine that would love the job so that their children won’t have to live in a hotel. Don, how dare you tell people how bad it was under Bush when we had jobs back them. Most people have lost their jobs under this president and that is a fact!
For profit hospitals in order to cut costs do not want to spend money on personel to properly disinfect your hospital room, bed and other equipment you touch as a patient. When my doctor did my pacemaker he told me “I do not want you to stay in the hospital, I want you to recover at home, have a home nurse come and check you out, so you dont get other infections? I know many people who have received infections like Mersa they got in the hospital. Its these for profit hospitals who dont want to spend the bucks to make sure there is proper infection control, or germicidal potions that are supposed to be used to disinfect. These are considered “non essential” and to be watered down to save money. I know I am a retired nurse and we always complained to the hospital administrators only concerned with the bottom line, not quality patient care.
I had a friend die of a infection after spending 4 months in a hospital going through the hell of Chemo. He gets home and one day later is back in the hospital with an infection that kills him within 3 days.
Even lay people know that Chemo lowers resistance to any kind of infections enough to make a simple cold lethal. It was a for Profit Hospital that treated him. He was on Medicare. The treatment worked, the hospital killed him.
Mr Burns vs Obama
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_6yLOwvDr0&feature=channel_page
Hint : Mr Burns wins on health care
WILL ROVE PICK UP THE SOAP ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzPJPHVjc78&feature=channel
Hint : America looses its dignity
The other option is a tad less glam…
“It’s here that the American dream decided it liked the taste of the vomit it was chocking on. Just rolled over on its back and screamed for more drugs. it didn’t die.“ – Warren Ellis
Here is a great example of why things need to change. The company I work for is a major, major company in the US and the world (I will not include it’s name for privacy reasons), one of the top fortune 500 companies. 2 years ago, our health care changed with no option of staying with our old plans. Price wise, for a family of 5, it is the most affordable (which is important)and decent coverage. However, we have been twice to the emergency room, many times (15) I had major checkups and evaluations for my own health issues, and we have paid for everything. So far my insurance has not paid for one dime of any of this. Hopefully with changes coming (hope, hope, hope) this will change. I remember paying my $20.00 co-pay, and that was it. This year, my family is about broke due to all of the tests, stitches, staples etc ( I have 3 boys that seem to stay hurt). I have been to other countries and have been extremely impressed with thier health care. I have read the bill, all 1000+ pages, and many of the things people seem to be talking about are not even included within. In fact, I am not even sure where these ideas come from. Can we all discuss this issue with the facts and not the assumptions? Knowledge is power so please, let’s all read the fine print and not-so-fine print and work together for something we will all agree can benefit a country full of great people with great needs….
No theories that the government struck a sideline deal with the pharmaceutical industry…
Just the facts ma’am !
Obama on Drugs: 98% Cheney?
I searched all over the newspapers and TV transcripts and no one asked the President what is probably the most important question of what passes for debate on the issue of health care reform: $80 billion of WHAT?
Hey, in my neighborhood, people think $80 billion is a lot of money. But is it?
I checked out the government’s health stats (at HHS.gov), put fresh batteries in my calculator and toted up US spending on prescription drugs projected by the government for the next ten years. It added up to $3.6 trillion.
In other words, Obama’s big deal with Big Pharma saves $80 billion out of a total $3.6 trillion. That’s 2%.
Hey thanks, Barack! You really stuck it to the big boys. You saved America from these drug lords robbing us blind. Two percent. Cool!
http://www.gregpalast.com/obama-on-drugs-98-cheney/
“Americans do not have the intellectual capacity to revolt. All you need to keep them pacified is to give them a dozen donuts & a gun !” – Max Keiser
ALERT
Now it’s Let’s Make a Deal with hospital lobbyists.
First, the President was caught with his principles down, cutting a scuzzy back-room deal with pharmaceutical lobbyist Billy Tauzin to limit drug price savings to just 2% over 10 years (see attached, “Obama on Drugs: 98% Cheney?”), the New York Times today reports that another deal was sealed by lobbyist Chip Kahn of the American Hospital Association.
Here are the numbers they don’t want you to see: Hospitals will be allowed to hike their prices and revenues by six trillion dollars ($5,853 billion) over the next ten years, only $155 billion less than they had projected before the Obama “reform.”
In all, the Obama back-room deal will “reduce” our $26 trillion total hospital bill over the next decade by one-half of one percent.
Once again, the lobbyists got the gold mine, the public got the shaft.
Say it ain’t so, Mr. President.
Today I just received my antibiotics for free at my local pharmacy. The Democrats are in bed with Pharma and they are trying to give free medicine to people to entice them about how good it is to get things for free. But can that be sustainable? How are pharmaceuticals going to make profit? and the shareholders? Hello…This HR3200 is fishy and I don’t trust the government. Did anybody get free medicine today at their local pharmacy?
It isn’t free. Like you so wisely said, there is no free lunch. This means that taxpayers pay for the benefit of lower cost drugs. Think of it as sort of a bulk buy rebate. Buy enough peanut butter in one go, peanut butter is cheaper. Its a simple incentive. The same works for pharmaceuticals.
To Matt Taiibi, the best spokesman for the progressive positions in our country today. I listen and watch ALL the conservative, liberal and progressive spokesmen of the issues of the day. In other words I am a political junkie. I suffer through hours of the right wing cable shows daily. So, it’s not as if I don’t know their positions. Iw would be surprised if any of the “ditto heads” have ever heard a counter position to their views.
I have seen you on Keith Oberman, Rachel Madow, Bill Maher, etc. I always enjoy you, but I want you to know that your appearance on Morning Joe and your debate with Maria Bartoloma was BY FAR your best and most effective appearance. You are usually more like Obama, a bit too polite and passive. You always make your point and are extremely articulate. But the fire that you demonstrated on the Morning Joe show was fantastic. Your emotion was very effective. Keep up the good work.
You are a masterful writer and NO ONE presents better arguments for the direction this country must take to achieve a better way of life. Regards Bob Simons
If Taiibi is so damn smart why isn’t running for office? Is it because he’s to busy reaping the benefits of the “system” he periodically attacks?
Hey Jon, this dude probably has not pay his taxes like you and me…he is cheating like most of the Obama cabinet! “Help the poor” they are always telling us and they are always asking somebody else to pay for it…He is enjoying the fruits of the Bourguesie and capitalist system that he so much writes against.. Liars….they rip us off and they they call themselves Liberals!
Obama comes from Chicago,the city that perfected the grease job.That being said, he ran and won a position that no one in his right mind would take.He knew what he would be up against,so his ability to”Change” our country was pretty much smoke and mirrors. How we got from a budget surplus with Clinton(and yeah we all know he was no saint) to a budget deficit that my children’s grandchildren will be paying for rests squarely on the shoulders of Bush/Cheney.I think Obama’s heart is in the right place-but I don’t have as much hope as he says he has.
Call/email urgently Senators, Congressman, fellow Dems, and Media to challenge Democratic Senator Baucus to be forced to provide democratic process in the Finance Committee. Baucus set this thing up for defeat. First, in November 2008 after reviewing the robust mandate in support of National Healthcare that we should be instead looking at a “Public Option” Baucus said that. He turned the conversation from the get-go. Obama followed his lead. All things considered, I believe the concept of “Public Option”. There are many ways to design it. But it should be one NATIONAL system definately to bring competition. I’m liking what I read above about the Swiss system. I think Americans actually might go along with something like that. But first and foremost, Senator Baucus has screwed this whole thing up (purposely?) by cherry picking a group within the Finance Committee to work on Health Care Reform. His initial group was 4 freakin’ Republicans to 3 Democrats. The question is really: HOW COME WE LET HIM GET AWAY WITH THAT? Why did the President and Rahm Emanuel play along and even elevate Baucus and his rotten Finance Committee? Next, Baucus was allowed to open that group (now called the Gang of 6 because Republican Orrin Hatch dropped out)in early June by saying from the get-go that “the Public Option is off the table” as per Republican Olympia Snowe (Gang of 6 member) yesterday on Andrea Mitchell Show. So they they turned their backs on the mandate from the American people from Day 1. Finally then Baucus directs Conrad to go chase Pluto and study co-ops that were never discussed in the election and do not provide the consistancy, buying power, and competition that Americans hungar for.
But the problem is not them, it’s us. We trusted the process on the Hill too much and we trusted Obama too much; and Obama trusted the process on the Hill too much. Remember–he is our spokesperson. We put him in place because he is the embodiment of our DEMAND for a national healthcare system! We’ve been waiting 17 years for this people. Don’t let Baucus screw this up for us. DEMAND DEMOCRACY! CALL AND EMAIL. REVEAL THE SHINNEGANS IN THE FINANCE COMMITTEE TO THE COUNTRY AT LARGE. PUT THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA. ORGANIZE STREET PROTESTS AND CHASTISE BAUCUS FOR THUMBING HIS NOSE AT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY PLATFORM. We did not put these people in place for Regional Healthcare Reform.
Whatever version finally comes out of Washington, it will be far stronger if you and I insist on a Democratic Process Now! Either the full Finance Committee to be seated at the table hammering out this thing, or at least a majority of Democrats should be in the select working group; or as Congressman Weiner suggested on the Rachel Maddow Show yesterday, the Finance Committee findings should be ignored. But this problem needs to be on cable 24/7 next week in order to pressure for the fix.
FYI Angie in Senator Baucman’s DC office told me yesterday that the infamous “Gang of 6″ is actually a volunteer group. I suggest we get the other members on Finance to “volunteer” and wedge their way into the group. “Meet the Press” should be interesting tomorrow with 2 members on Finance there, Dem Schumer and Rep Hatch…
Fight for What’s Right! Spread the word.
Christine
I will fight for what is darn right and that is that my taxes and yours are going to skyrocket. With Obamacare, I will not get the excellent service that i get today with the doctor of my choice and once you and I are old(because we all become old!) we are going to be left to the dogs because we will cost too much to the system. In the mean time, a 77 years-old senator with terminal brain cancer is spendind millions of dollars with his luxurious health care coverage that you and I pay for to extend his life for another 2 more years while he is trying to take that away from you and me. Are you OK with that! That is wrong! You better get the bandages out of your eyes. Nothing is for free! You got to pay for it. Free health care doesn’t exist no matter how much the liberals want to sugar coated. I will see in D.C. on 9/12.
Oops, I meant to say Angie in Senator Baucus’ DC office said the Gang of Six in the Finance Committee is “a volunteer group.”
I apologize for not checking spelling and sentence structure before I hit the send button. I get a little worked up when I notice Democrats, and Americans at large, not standing up for Democracy.
But you get my drift. The way to get The Public Option or even a Single Payer system of some sort, is to first INSIST on the undemocratic process in the Finance Committee being exposed in mainstream media, and insist on changing that. Also insist that Obama man up. But if he won’t on this issue… Go Past him.
Whatever this article in Rolling Stone says; and I am anxious to buy it today–I am extremely proud of the 60 Congressmen and Congresswomen who drew a line in the sand this week and said they would refuse to sign any legislation that does not have the Public Option. I’m proud of Pelosi this week too. Now we need to get their back.
If you want some form of National Healthcare YOU are going to have to work for it. Plain and simple.
Christine
The Republicans,those who pay them off and the mental defectives who blindly follow them (using “we are conservativesa” as a mantra) threws everything into this. Predictably, they have frightened senior citizens and got the so-called right to life people and the various white supremacy groups all in an uproar. The united States is a weird country. If anyone so much as whispers the word socialism, many people go off the deep end and panic. Critical thinking would be something to aspire to in America. The fact is, I’ve never seen much evidence of critical thinking on a large scale and this health care debacle is another piece of the lack of it.
I must own the truth that I am a really poor typist. But the truth remains the same. So-called elected officials, on both sides of the aisle, care more for the money and other perks they receive from corporate America and they do not seriously care anything about the general public’s best interests. However, they’re very adept at bamboozling many people quite throughly. This isn’t actually the America some seem to believe it is. Corpoations run the country because they have most of the money and so most of the power. That is not news. The system has been so since, at least, the 19th century. Incidentally, most Republican ideas came from then as well.
I find it interesting that there is very little talk about reforming our system of subsidies. Why isn’t fruit and vegetables subsidized? We can’t force people to eat healthy, but many can’t afford healthy food. Besides looking at health care from the angle of agriculture subsidies from the federal government, we are also a country that’s going broke. So why can’t we use some of the frequently mentioned American ingenuity and cut many government costs? Reduce our military budget by 25%, and we’d still spend more than the next five countries combined. If we did this, and a number of other cuts, we’d have money to cover everyone’s health care. Also, I like the concept of insurance being for major things – not every minor pain. So why don’t we have single payer – health savings accounts for everyone? This would help everyone be accountable for their own minor costs instead of expecting insurance to pay it. These ideas would improve our health and cut costs – but I hear no one “connecting the dots.”
To all of you “camaradas!” I want you to know that all the illegal inmigrants in the United States are going to demostrate on October 12th(Dia de La Raza) because they are tired of waiting to became legals so that they can use our Health Care.
As Obama said “they cannot be denied services” and then Uncle Sam is going to send the bill to Dan, Joy, Christine, Travis, Don and myself to pay for them(Taiibi doesn’t pay them)… In the mean time, Pancho, Pepe, Maria, Jose are sending their dollars to Mejico so that their family can get the plasma TV that they asked for to watch Mexico vs. U.S in soccer.. Orale!!! Ain’t America great?
Medicare for All is the only way to simplify this mess. Insurance companies are driven by Wall Street and they already have our financial future at risk why would we want them to continue to have our healthcare at risk.
RP that is for Rest in Peace because Health Care is going nowhere! Even your buddy, the marxist nuts, LaRouche is against the measure…Did you read that The One’s approval rating today is at all time low? ..and where is he? The One that tells us about distribution of wealth… He is in Martha Vineyard with the richest people of these country, the corrupt dirty Democrats!!!At least with the capitalist system nobody is talking to me about the HR3200 B.S. that everybody will be covered…there is no free luch(Econ 101) Get that out of your mine.
Well done, numbnuts! You’ve finally figured it out, nine months after the fact. What we have, apropos of the mentality of the US electorate, is a political moron who is entirely incapable of managing the electoral process. Here we have an initiative that began with overwhelming public support, driven by a president with overwhleming majorities in both houses of Congress, and he can’t figre out how to get it done. He will, of course, praise whatever dog’s breakfast emerges from the sausage-making process, declare victory, and then move on with the socialization of the country. Is there anyone at Rolling Stone remotely intelligent enough to understnad the imapact on our economy of a nine trillion dollar deficit? That will be Obama’s legacy.
I read Mr. Taibbi’s article. I found it to be both illuminating and disheartening. Illuminting in that a few pages I was able to understand how terribly wrong the health reform process is proceeding, and disheartening in that I now know that Change has not come to America and no matter whom we elect monied interets rule this country. Thanks?
Now write an article explaining what really happened to the trillion dollars in stimulus that seems to have gone nowhere.
An Argument in favor of Public Option yet to be heard
Tsk,tsk, tsk,… so much bi-partisanship provoked and created to distract us from asking WHO’s behind the curtain? Wake up America! If you aren’t asking questions, you aren’t going to find the TRUTH.
Anyone who’s read Naomi Klein’s book, The Shock Doctrine, will readily see that the corporatist takeover of America has been well underway for many years now. Our congressmen and bureaucrats are on the take from PACs, lobbyists and special interest groups and NO LONGER REPRESENT US! (Proof at cleanupwashington.org ) For a long time now, government agencies have had revolving doors with corporate execs and employees and are given the responsibility to create policies regarding clean air, clean water, safe food, fair business AND FINANCING REGULATIONS. Do you think a former attorney for Monsanto given a policy making appointment in the FDA’s biotech division is going to develop policies to insure that genetically modified organisms in our food supply and polluting the environment with GM pollen are safe and pose no health risks to consumers or the environment? NO! he’s going to do what’s in Monsato’s profitable interests. Duuuh! Monsanto, among others, have been allowed to produce poisonous chemicals and convince (coerce?) the FDA, USDA and EPA that these chemicals are safe to spray in our environment. Again, wake up!, these chemicals kill animal and plant life…do you think we’re excluded from these groups just because we aren’t sleeping in a round-up ready soybean field?. And so it is with the FDA approving SAFE drugs…how many recalls have there been in the last 20 years? Or how about the growing list of GRAS(generally recognized as safe) ingredients which are being proven one by one to be harmful. The Nutrasweet/Rumsfeld connection is a typical example of how power persuades bureaucrats to look the other way while they rake in profits from peddling poison. Or how about the EPA’s eroding of safe clean air and water policies…that’s OUR clean air and water, folks! More corporatist influence. Another agency who’s supposed to act in THE PEOPLE’s interest is the BLM (bureau of land management), selling off OUR national resources to the highest bidder, and they aren’t looking to do improvements to these nationally owned places, nor are US citizens benefiting from the gross profits made off the resources we all “own and want protected”. We do get to share in the cost of cleaning up these environmental disasters,whether it be the cost to our health or the cost to our long term environmental health. Anyone complaining about our tax dollars going to bail out this negligence?
So for years now, we’ve had corporations polluting our air and water, FDA being way too permissive on what’s being put in our food and medicine and how it’s being grown, mismanagement of public lands and resources which leads to polluted land, air and water. These gross negligences are contributing factors to the increasing rates of cancer, asthma, immune dysfunction, heart disease, diabetes, and the growing list of new diseases and syndromes (ie. you are what you eat, drink and breathe for those who don’t quite yet get that BASIC fact) If ever there was an argument for a public option in health care it would be these reasons alone. The government bureaus and their corporate-kissed appointees have not been formulating policies with OUR health in mind. What better way to promote health maintaining measures like insuring our safe food and drugs, clean water and air, and protected national resources and common waterways than to make the government accountable for our health, and our environment’s health, “lock, stock and barrel”.
As far as funding this… does anyone really believe their taxes are going to go up more than the amount of their health insurance premiums, co-pays and out-of-pocket expenses? (minus the federal subsidy/tax credit for health care expenses, of course) I doubt it completely. I for one wouldn’t mind paying my last premium amount (before my policy was canceled because of denied coverage)in additional taxes if it meant full coverage, free choice and NO CHANCE OF BEING CANCELLED OR DENIED COVERAGE.
Here’s another idea: How about raising the fines and reparations for corporate polluters so that the fines are actually a deterrent to polluting and not just a bottom-line decision? The same should apply to food and drug companies. And these remunerations could supply a good chunk of the money to fund public option, unless of course these corporations cleaned up their act.
How about NAFTA and the job losses overseas? There is a connection with the public option and above mentioned pollution issues; may I suggest again The Shock Doctrine; you’ll realize that your job benefits including 401K’s/pensions, health insurance, etc. which were fought for so hard by unions around the nation were in competition with overseas markets that don’t have any of those nasty little worker and environmental rights cutting into their corporate profits. These foreign lands are a corporatist’ dream: no worker’s rights, no environmental regulations, tax loopholes and more financial bennies not available in the US. And that leads to another idea to fund public option while leveling the playing field between American based manufacturers and foreign competitors; massive corporate taxes on these imported goods for exploiting foreign work forces and resources…but that most likely won’t happen, since that will cut into profits and freak out Wall STreet… and we can’t have the sensitive Wall STreet machine blowing it’s cookies again. But then again, the public option would make American work forces more attractive to corporations if they don’t have to flip the bill for their employees health insurance…ever think of that?
I’m sure there are more creative solutions to be thought of; but the important issue is to look for the TRUTH in non-partisan news sources actively investigating these closely related issues, and above all,make our congressmen accountable to US, not to corporations and special interests groups.
In his most current article in Rolling Stone I think Taibbi is incorrect regarding the “public option.”
Encasing the “public option” in another failed system: the “free” market, is not going to fix helthcare.
That is, placing the “public option” in the current market system will result in healthcare as a right being forced to account for itself in the other’s idiom, to argue for the place of humanity in the market’s ranks.
That’s upside down and ass backward.
It’s the market that should be forced to account for itself–to argue for it’s place and rank in our society.
The challenge to corporate power based on a fundamental human right that singlepayer represents will not only fix healhcare but will go a long way to putting things right side up.
oops…
that should read: putting things right side up for our democracy.
Public schools too, are a form of socialism, as are social security, pensions, welfare, unemployment insurance and so on. I applaud the consistency of those against socialized medicine, as they have clearly also steered clear of any schooling, because of their being so abstemious
And our public schooling run so efficiently? In wealthy neighborhoods they do great, but check out the Chicago schools in poor neighborhoods. These kids have behavior problems beyond the likes that you have ever thought.
And the truth about why the children all have behavioral problems has nothing to do with public schools. It has to do with the fact that kids are having kids, no one is getting married anymore to start a family, and no one is raising their kids anymore because THEY are STILL kids themselves. This country has no morals, no values, and no sense of itself anymore. I mean how many grandparents do you see raising their grandkids nowadays. Society is sick, Washington is sick, and the world as a whole is sick.
You people are all insane
If you don’t like health care….don’t pay for it. I don’t think I should have to pay for anybody’s health care unless I have a say in their diet and exercise program (or lack thereof). I think any government funding of healthcare is crazy. Now give me a good reason why the federal government or some other US citizen should have to pay for someone elses health care (I know I’ll get the socialist list of touchy feely crap….but hey)
You are going to pay for it one way or another with higher rates on your policy. Don’t we already have to pay for uninsured motorists or have you found a loophole. If so please do tell.
There is no popular movement in any European country to adopt the American healthcare system. Now why is that?
Exaclty!
Thom Hartmann has a simple answer for the uninsured. We already have the program. We don’t need another 7000 pages of bullschitt to provide health care for the uninsured.
Dear President Obama: A Modest Medicare Proposal
http://magginkat.wordpress.com
Ilk
About the oppression comment:
The only people oppressing me are the democrats with their crappy social programs. It took me five months longer to find a job than it normally would have because I am a white male, and 5 years ago I had to reapply to my state’s university with a 3.2 and an ACT score of 28, when many of the students who got in through affirmative action, barely knew how to read. And then they continue to fund all of these welfare programs, that continue to drain resources from our state and local governments. And Hire incompetents into lifetime administerial positions that you would basically have to committ a felony to get fired. If everything on the government end ran efficient, these programs would be fine. However, they don’t always work the way they are supposed to and it’s frustrating, because these programs and departments never have to deal with consequences.
Hey, I’m fine, I’ll continue to be fine. The government knows this and will continue to poke me, audit me, and annoy me for the rest of my life.
You say you’re fine. It doesn’t sound like it.
Oppressed :
You sound like the “angry mob” that Phony Palin and McCain tried to stir up last fall.
The “angry mob” that the evil and warmongering Fox Channel seeks and tries to inflame! To start an unnecessary war like Iraq or attack a new President, even one who already has apparently saved the US from yet another Republican Depression !?!
It’s one thing to disagree respectfully, to make a point with logic, but you’re one of the foaming-at-the-mouth kind that make a lot of noise at a town hall, just like an out-of-control wild teenager.
Medibasic and Medibasic-Plus Health Plan
1. The political approach the current administration uses to explain why we need health care reform is deeply flawed and the plan itself is not a good one.
2. It was a mistake to accentuate the have-nots situation instead of the problems for the haves.
3. Basic health care services should be made universal and split off from the extraordinary health care services thereby eliminating insurance type overhead for basic health. The basic health plan would be called Medibasic and run by Medicare.
4. All extraordinary healthcare services and procedures would be covered by supplemental healthcare insurance including profit and nonprofit private insurance and a single government insurance program called Medibasic-Plus. Medibasic-Plus would be paid for from a supplemental payment to Social Security deductions if this voluntary program is subscribed to.
To obtain more details about this plan email a request to me.
I’m from The Netherlands, and over here we have pretty good healthcare. Everybody pays a monthly (somewhat)equal amount, and everybody gets basic(extensive) care. Easy and fair. The only requirement for good health care is that there is a general idear that it’s ok to help each other out. Everybody pays an equal amount and everybody gets the health care they’re entitled to. No medical bills this year? Too bad, you still gotta pay. You had surgery that costs more than 10 times what you pay this year for insurance, fine. No extra pay. It balances out perfectly. It’s called being civil.
You see people in the States discussing this and giving all of these argument, but basicly these people are selfish. Disturbing. And then they call your president a socialist. Yeah, so? Does that disquallify anyone by saying that? No. Why would you make that sound like a dirty word. Ridiculous.
Many people in the United States are more than a little weird on the subject of socialism. It all comes of a lot of stuff which happened over 50 years ago involving alleged un-American activities and it is too long and too stupid to elaborate upon here. Not a single one of these socialism phobics would look up the word in a good dictionary or, God forbid, use a bit of that critical thinking I’ve mentioned previously. They actually never reason why. They hear the word and react like a flock of hens with a fox in their yard. Mindless panic rules. There is nothing ratioal in any of this bias against socialism at all.
I am one of tens of millions who had perfectly great healthcare but because I live in a Blue State (NY) they legislated mandates rendering my coverage illegal because it didn’t cover full pssychiatric care. Insanity. Now I have none. If allowed to shop in another state, Kansas has great cheap olans, I could get great affordable coverage or get my old coverage back. When Obama was first Senator, the hospital his wife worked at received a one million dollar earmark. Within three weeks his wife’s salary tripled. This confiscation of one sixth of the economy will go to union jobs, hack promotions, and you will die once you stop being a “usefull economic unit.” I am a political atheist, but I see Obama willfully destroying the dollar and rationing health care except for him, congress, government moochers, and unionists. This is a return to feudalism. Oh, and the vaccine? The adjuvants that created Gulf War Syndrome are allowed in the vaccine again because it is being fast tracked as it is labelled a pandemic. Read about “squalene.” Remember, extreme green globalist elites want a population of less than one billion people. I anticipate some big “EMERGENCY.” What else are all those czars in place for?
Regarding comparisons to the Netherlands, let’s not compare a country of 300,000,000 people with 50 million Mexicans at their southern border with the cute little Netherlans. If they can’t control Medicare, the answer is more Government hacks?
“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.”
Margaret Thatcher.
Medicare is a microcosm of government-sponsored healthcare and California is a microcosm of taxing the wealthy to give free services to the “less fortunate.” Look how well both work.